SK

To the point.

I agree with Longshot here. I have been playing zoomed out since I started. Now when I fly I hit everything and can't see anything. I feel like I have been handicapped.

I liked the zoom in and out feature. It was an awesome tool. I miss my zoom out.

Thank you.

EDIT: A certain line from the song Alice's Restaurant comes to mind here. Not to be taken literally of course.

"I WANNA KILL! I WANT BLOOD AND GUTS AND VEINS IN MY TEETH!"

I always fly zoomed out and use a hot button to zoom in when i need it.

I do this for two reasons:

1. So i can see what is going on around me, this has been very important for my spatial awareness and situational awareness.  This is a hugs blow to my play style and ability to effective fly they way I like to, recklessly.  I'm sure I can over come this part but it doesn't make me happy.

2. Percieved speed even in a G5 or Sidewinder I feel like a snail zoomed in at all, in my chosen ship the 250 i don't feel the speed at all.  Part of what I enjoy most about dog fighting games and space games in particular is zooming around and high speed dogfights, even if the speed hasn't changed the percieved speed will, I know this because as soon as i zoom out it makes a marked difference for me.  Night and Day really.  This unfortunately is not something i can overcome by changing playstyle it's simply one of the aspects of the game i enjoyed the most.

So yeah, while i can probably learn to adjust my play style I cannot fix the loss of enjoyment the perceived speed loss is going to have on my time in the game.  I'm not sure why the change was made but I ask you to change it back because it really will affect my willingness to play.

I do think the turn thign should be fixed but this is important to my and many's enjoyment of the dogfighting.

All the limits in the game are artificial and are chosen to try and make the game more fun.  I have used both view types, and I am confident that you can fly and shoot in either.  However, I would like to be able to see the entire ship and I have no objection to increasing the default FOV.  

I would like to try out some slightly more radical changes.  What if FOV changed based on speed?   Then players could get the wider view (good for dodging and drifting) but get the aiming advantages of a smaller FOV when they slow down.  I also find the zoom key a little harsh.  It would be nice it zoomed and adjusted the FOV incrementally as I held it down, and kept it until I hit a button to reset it.  --wj

I don't want to fly with blinders on.  It may or may not be a disadvantage, but i don't gain anything to compare with what i will feel i have lost in flying in a forced zoomed in position.  We can all adapt, and to be fair we are both arguing from the perspective of our preferred tactics (doesn't make us disingenous, if we admit it it makes us honest).  

I'm a fast moving swoop, kill, and run player, A wide POV favors my style of play allowing me to survive the field and pick my targets more easily, i could still do what i do without it but  there ya go.

You are a hunter and ambusher, we all know you can do that with full zoom out and there is no doubt in my mine that a zoomed in view will only make you better at it, or more appropriately give other people less of a shot at anticipating or reacting to you until they asplode.

Part is a matter of taste, and enjoyment (in a wide open arena like space i feel like i should be able to have the visual freedom to, y'know, see it) and part is a balance issue, which needs to be addressed for sure.  My larger point is all things being equal losing the ability to have that FOV is a huge negative towards this game for me (in a way it robs me of my feeling of flying a crazy fast space ship in space) but as much as i don't want to fly zoomed in I don't believe through meta or other wise people should have to fly the way i prefer.

Bottom line If the turn issue can be resolved then I don't feel any one should be forced into a view position someone else prefers over their own preference.

This is a creative answer to the turn speed issue as you may have fixed it right there and gave ships a new "stat if you will" leave things as they are link speed to Zoom and make the zoom level speed based and universal so how far out a zoom you get at top speed is dependent on the actual speed of your vehicle, (faster ships zoom out more).  Now this is where you may not have to fix the turn thing... if speed is the key then ships blasting along will turn better giving faster ships a slight turning advantage, however where the turning advantage will most likely not be able to be abuse as it was in the past because....  1. Inorder to maintain that tight turn you have to maintain speed if you slow down you turn less tight, and so risk overshooting your target, so it balances out when you slow down) 2. where the turn radius was really being abused was way zoomed out "circle duels"  where you slow sharply and turn hard and getting that little bit of extra turn was enough to pop an opponent during a pass that he couldn't get his guns on you.  If you lose that edge on the slow down this issue becomes a non-issue.

It seems to me this will probably resolve much of the issue with the turn problem in a single stroke.

Previous default: 90 

1 tick out: 100

2 ticks out: 120

Current default: 90

Each tick changes FOV by 5

--wj

i don't know exactly how wide  the human eyes is , but sure not 90 , true that later wiew give just an idea and is not focused , but the best would be to have as more similare range as the eyes itself have , the other ( less than 90 ) are more like using a binoculars.

this beside the camera distance from the ship. this my opinion.

panter are almost unbeateable in 1 vs 1, if the panter pilot knows when to use boost (using them to escape only around) , the panter can come back with full health. i don't know what need to be done , as i not understood well how speed upgrades related are , ...maybe less pump , maybe less tank , maybe less else , no idea , but atm is worst than befor with it.

example i so 5 to 7 players (me too) loose half of a game trying chase hunter brasil with it's panter , and getting maybe 1 kill of him .... lol.

other point as quest would be this : if you change "basic imput about ships , like example 5+ all one type 6 to other kind etc , it turns out with an increase of accents on the previus unbalances , and need work in those again.

The pilots that do that ARE NOT GOOD panthers pilots, yes they survive but they also waste the resources of their team surviving.  A torp hit and death is better, far better than three picked off torps and 3+ minutes of running to avoid dying (and accomplishing nothing else).  At best you draw some one off but usually that is n't worth the wasted time and the impact you have on your teams chances by not landing at least one torp in that time.

As i said A panther that stays on mission will be killed, the only place i consider panthers to be hard is in CTF but the two pilots making a concerted effort can make short work of them.

Panther used to be head and shoulders above the other bombers they are at best slightly better, but given recent boosts to other ships pilots of like skills are going to be able to deal with panthers.  A good pilot in a panther will out fly a pilot of lesser skill in a fighter and still land hits on the carrier, a weak panther pilot will not either by running or dying.

Of course you may say they are a problem in D&D and to that I say I wish we good ban bombers from S&D  and make them get kills with some actual skill.  :)

• Mamba
• Sidewinder
• Krait
• Viper
• Kingfisher
• Merlin
• Piranha
• Swordfish
  

I personally, don't have trouble killing them (but it is harder than any other ship).  However, when your carrier is being destroyed, a Panther is probably involved, probably making a fool out of 4 or 5 pilots. --wj

all other end the fuel befor panter, why is that i'm not sure , and it also look to be able to go way fater , also if it have on the paper less speed.

they harder to kill than any other bomber.

slow them down imo or take away the shield regen almost all.

beside theyr cannon was already good powerfull befor, they with luck are not easy to use , but vet players can handle that well ))).

maybe is better for you to let panter as it is and make all others more powerfull and raise up theyr costs..than would be fair ?

The nuke spam is a problem in S&D. I have said before that Bombers should not be a choice in that game, but I have softened my stance. Just a little. okay,, still on 90% for an S&D bomber ban, but the other 10 % thinks they should be able to partake. New pilots will learn a hell of a lot about their ships doing it that way.

As an alternate solution, what about disabling remote detonation in S&D. You can still toss nukes, but they have to hit something to trigger if they are armed. Toss one in an asteroid close enough and its the same effect, but adds a harder element to the game. 

let's take a wiew to the different kind of maps...

-in asteroid field in a pain (was at least, now less) reach the enemy carrier with bombers exeption for panter.

-in broadside we all see that a team well done can reap apart a carrier in few minutes (less than 2 befor , now maybe 3-4 )

-broken moon is the midleway and is open to several approaches longer or shorter but risky (with exeption)

since the the speed effectivly is usefull for all ships the ability to keep that is more important to ships that need dogfight , not for bombers that are supposed to go straigt toward theyr target (around): so good they have speed , but better reduce the time they can use it, not alsio they run out of fuel in 1000 but no more than 1500 and reduce the time where the boost keep working also when end tapping ( in fact i would find for sensated that when boost is released the ship should almost immediatly slow down , but this atm would need to rebalance again too much all ship afterwards , so maybe i just ask a generally low time of boosting , not too much ).

A single Mamba can stop those nukes and that Panther.  A G5 will tear it apart and rocket the nukes.  

The enemy team not playing defense is the easiest way to get nukes on a carrier.  If guys play a solid defense it can take a really long time in any bomber, Panther included.  (Broadsides being the exception.  It's just too close to keep the turrets up for long.)

I would ALWAYS rather see a Panther in my sights than a Bison.  Bison take forever to die, have VERY useful MGs, and can ram a light ship into oblivion.  They also only take 1 point from hull collisions so good luck getting them to stop bouncing like a mad hornet.

other f3x , g5 or especially vipers can take down those quite fast, but need to flown by player that know where to wait and shoot , new players sometimes just follow me using the contrail and as mostly they use mamba they don't reach me, instead after few round for kill turrets i have the one that have them in sight.

Have you flown the Panther?  It's VERY hard to hit with.  The Bison is a far superior vehicle for killing people, the Panther's only bonus is the speed to run away.  

The Justice Bus does not need to run away, it drives to its target and delivers its payload.  No matter what.

H4B - The Justice Bus.  Beep Beep mofo.

beside , o don't know why but now more player are thinking on help the team-carrier instead of only kill the enemy flag carrier. but still would be better to give more worth on retrive insted of flag kill , or at least same.

I have been following these thread, providing ideas is one thing but please allow for a discussion without immediately responding sarcastically or negatively to everything that isn't *exactly* what you suggested.

there is a larger picture to which we are all contributing our opinions, a more measured response is more useful to the devs and more conducive to a rational discourse.

Additionally, the speed decrease associated with carrying the flag now vastly outweighs the effects of the speed boost.  

The slow down formula is: new_max_speed = max_speed - (max_speed - 80)

So the slowdown effect on a Viper changed from -14 to -30.4. So a Viper carrying the flag will move 9.4 slower that it did prior to the patch.  These effects will be magnified since everyone not carrying the flag now moves faster.  

However, I admit CTF is still more or less broken.  --wj

<And numerically, increasing all values across the board effectively nerfs the top ranked ships because the relative difference between the values has decreased >

-right but inside each classes only.

<CTF is still more or less broken>

- less by my point of wiew , still i would like see more credits for retrive than for flag-kill , and less for capture than for pickup.

<Additionally, since the global turning speed increase is a larger percentage change than the max speed increase, that means that heavy and medium fighters will find it easier to shoot down light fighters in a dogfight>

- all these speed buff make also harder to aim the weapons (less friendly) , same for the necessity of "drive"the aim of bullets ,  it help the turning , but not the aim to say simpler.

we are all trying to adapt yet , so we'll see how it comes out in few.

150 for pickup

100 for retrieval

75 for flag kill

200 for capture.

However, I see your point.  Nothing happens unless someone grabs the flag. 

Global turn speed increases are greater than 10% for most ships, while the max speed increase is less than 10%.  Admittedly, I you have less time to aim... 

) tkx.

I've noticed kill numbers of ace pilots flying A-80s and FH-90s aren't suffering at all. Actually the reverse is true. My kill numbers in the A-80 are up at least a quarter. 

The Nighthawks handling has changed throwing aim and targeting off, again. Beam ships are very sensitive to handling due to the tricky aim. It will be interesting to see if people come back to the Nighthawk with other fighters buffed. 

CTF is much more fun with slower flag carriers. It takes teamwork to move a flag. I actually picked up and captured the flag (separate runs) in an unmodified Bison bomber. The game is no longer speed runs by premium ships while other players watched. 

I haven't seen the viper grab a single flag since the sidewinder upgrade last week.  Now with the new G5 there are only three real options:

FX-3

G5

B-10x

and the 'y' of the group:  H4B.   Nothing stops the H4B so it's a very good "get it off the carrier" ship.

- the Kingfisher:

is too strong now. Give it the missle and take it from Merlin, and that would be a Premium now.

I outran defenders with  it and took down 3 side turrents, befor they even got me (2x FH-250 and a 1x Merlin). Too high Shield reg, too high the fuel reg, too much drifting, too much speed.

Even Better than my Viper and the new Cobra in CTFs !!!!!

Is that realy supposed to be? A minus of 10% to 20% is  realy necessary (though I like it this way ..!!!)

- Panther:

It outruns my FH-250 ? I am exhausted!!! Bevor this patch I took out 2 Panthers in raw, against Mirador and Belshirash.

Now I couldn't take even one newbee in raw! The Panther is now even better for CTF and CA. Give it a better hit angle and it is a fighter ...

Panther must get nerfed for 10% to 15 %. It is a premium, but it is not allowed too be better than X99 and FH-250, which both are 2 times more expensive.

The rest is very nice, giving all the same chances to go at each others throat :)

I disagree on the G5.  The G5 is now as powerful as all ships should be.  If every ship gets as good as the Sidewinder/Mamba/G5/X99/Krait/FH-200/A-80/FH-100 then this game will be amazing.  PLEASE do not nerf those ships, they are all perfect and different now.   While it's great, the G5 still gives me no more problems than any other decent ship.  Just now a well piloted G5 can do as much dmg as a well piloted A-80/X99/FH200/250.

Buff the other ships to match.

The Panther I would reduce the shields on.  It takes a little too much fire to be so fast.  I know, it's a new alloy...but really with a little less survivability it would even out the speed.

I do really like the G5.  I feel that its speed is balanced out by its lack of firepower.  But I do want to slow down the boost just a little bit... The speed is so addictive, I barely use my Mamba anymore.  --wj

since the upgrade i find harder to hit epecially when the target turn round and jigle , one must somehow throw the dice to choose where to aim in the hope the target will fly into the bullets.frontally and and target moving constant are easyer to shoot as naturally for any other weapons kind....same for other cannon fast cannon around...but depend more on speed of targets.

for the rest i don't find it overpowered , but sure one of the good ships as the other ferc polo say in his list of well balanced ships.

fh-90 would need more chance to pursue the bombers , just a bit more.

Everything about the G5 is just right at the moment, so long as you don't slow it too much it should stay balanced.  The G5 is a gangster now, the way it should be.

Instead of lowering the speed I'd recommend cutting the boost tank by 1/4.  Currently it's got enough fuel to make the enemy carrier on shattered moon with 2/3 tank remaining.  That's insane.   ONLY the Sidewinder should be capable of that.  Otherwise what benefits does having no armor give?  

I love the G5 exactly how it is right now...don't get me wrong. 

But is it really fair that it's as fast and can boost as long as the Sidewinder?  What reason is there to choose the paper armored Sidewinder if it's not being the fastest damn ship around?  If the G5 can't get a speed cut, which is cool with me, the Sidewinder should get a slight boost.  It just needs something to give it an edge over the 5.  Since the upgrade I've not picked the Sidewinder for anything, I can use the G5 instead.

sidewinder stil go faster and turn faster , but i find it more usefull in furballs to quickly finish enemy already damaged by team mates (also full healty ones naturally). in that situation the speed and agility give its best imo.

Yeah.  I am usually of the school of buffing weaker units to match stronger ones rather than nerfing the well functioning units.  

My vote, after discussion, would be buff the sidewinder speed slightly and leave the G5 as is.

The Viper has functioned well since Steam release, no need to mess with it.  It should have been on my list of well performing ships.

at the moment is one of the good choice for ctf , taking away the speed/tank/pump , could leed to few other choises in ships , and some are not as well as g5 for game play that type of game imo , sidewinder can be shooted down more easily and bombers are too hard targets , i think is better  not change it atm, or at least wait.

No chance to stop them with FH-250. I am too fast out of boost fuel, and they are drifting on ice ...

Even FH-200 performs better in refuleing !?! 

It needs only a 2 time bigger fuel Tank. the rest is good balanced against FH-200.

In one point the Kingfisher is interessting, Speed in all facets.

You should change this stats with "Merlin" the magicians stats.

Then all things are in balance, if we say premiums have to perform better.

Well I fly Panther, tough TW is now much better.

Buth TW kann be killed in the CA and CTF runs, in CTF the Panther has no mach.

That is what I do not like.

Panther 600000, Viper, Swordfish 800000, Merlin 1000000 creds.

befor Patch 2 Panthers were no problem with other premiums. Now I have trouble to zake 1 down with another premium, specialy if you are fighting others Aces.

That is IMBA ;) I think this you should consider if we are talking of  ships in their class.

Please do a side-by-side comparison between the Kingfisher and the Piranha. The Piranha is the G5's equal on turning, speed and acceleration and not that far behind on afterburner. To make up for that the Piranha has MUCH better firepower  and shields.

I feel like the main argument for nerfing the G5 is that it can now ALMOST compare with some of the other ships . . . I really feel like "it's more expensive" should NOT be an excuse for having blatant balance discrepancies.

That said a small speed nerf to the G5 probably wouldn't ruin the game.

if ships will keep bee to buy , why not make the m3 as new ship free to fly for new player instead of mamba ?...and give the mamba a further slide-drift effect and bit more ab max speed or acceleration in order to give it the chance to exit the drift effect when under fire ?

this would create a total new kind of fly stile in one ship(mamba).it should be somehow similar result as in evochron mercenary fly style.

All the improvements were good and helped many ships perform much better.  

Most ships are all relatively as good as one another, with only slight differences based on armament.  The Premium ships now have a much smaller advantage than they used to.  This is great for the game and the level of play online.  Great dogfights and great games are ensuing.

seems that most of the player dislike the speed improve change , it makes aim harder , many times there is no more chance to kill the enemy in the first passage when it comes similar frontally , other times a ship not breack down the speed in time to counter manuver.

apart from that , seems that some player have adapt well , and now some of them can have even better performance than befor.

for sure is not more friendly to play but.

atm most of player  try not abuse of bombers in s&d , but maybe cause there are 2 good ships with missiles , those are very in vogue tkx to the help toward the speed.

also some crasshes that lead to total new game starting from new and with different mix of players (probably cause some not logged again in) seems to appear more frequently as befor.

.

reguards.

Honestly though buddy, besides me who's killed you in a dogfight in the A-80?  

When I was trying to dead-turn at full stop I couldn't get around on your G5/X99 at all, I was forced to resort to the Polo turn.  I've yet to give an AFTAC briefing on the Polo turn and haven't seen anyone else do it yet.

The inline flip USED to work but last night I couldn't get guns on you with it.  A-80 vs Merlin/G5 the medium is now just too quick for it.  You have to add a slight revision to the turn to get a better view on the target.   That slight revision is all the difference.  

Oh, and this only works so far with the A-80 and the FH-100.  Anything that drifts harder or turns quicker has other options.  The A-80 is slow enough to make the Polo turn work.  I tried it on a Merlin but found faster turns with just a full counter-steer.

is it possible to give a little ability to rocket to turn (not really track )toward the target like a short adjust towards engine warming  (warm seek missile , but just as initial imput , for how much?? boh , can be of sense a 10 degrees, after that single max turn after shoot it can only keep straight ) ?

Essentially what happens is a command will get trapped either on or off-- with primary guns and afterburner it gets stuck on, secondary weapons seem to get stuck off (can't fire). Last night I was able to reliably get my afterburner stuck on just as I was coming into rocket range on the enemy carrier (about 1500m out) the guns are more intermittent and I can't seem to track down what circumstances they trigger under. Afterburner gets stuck on for about 1 minute, guns a second or two.

I'm running the steam version of Moon Breakers, on windows 7 if that helps. I was flying a G5 but I was able to get it to happen in other ships as well. The bug occurred on all 3 maps and in multiple game modes. I have not had any troubles with my keyboard or mouse running any other program (this would be a very different post if my space bar was getting stuck down).